"They start taking away these hard-luck souls and feeding them coffee at the local "coffehouse" church service."

A friend of mine was griping about the vehement anti-alcoholism of fundamentalist/revivalist/Pentacostalist Protestants. This is one area in which their Puritan/Progressivist/Transcendentalist heritage shows through quite clearly. This, combined with their co-opting of punk, pop and rock (among other lovely things like divorce), makes them worse than useless on the culture wars. (If they are politically "conservative," I would wager it is because the Republican Party has exploited the abortion issue so cleverly. I am told that in European countries, revivalist Protestants tend to vote Socialist.)

I love how they're talking about how "it's so hard to wait until marriage!" (Actually, if parents instill a proper fear of the consequences, it can be surprisingly easy.)

Do worship teams have a team captain, or does everybody have the same Team Captain? Don't they run into problems when they try to say, "there's no I in worship team!", since there very clearly is an i? Are there worship tournaments with brackets and everything? Most importantly, are there worship referees to keep the different worship teams worshipping fairly? Do worship teams need a coach, or would that be all together too hierarchical? The sociology of a worship team would be absolutely fascinating--what is the point? what does it mean to them to "belong to the team"? in short, why, why, why would anyone do this? I ask in all seriousness (more or less)--I cannot begin to understand it. Stylites on a pillar, I understand. Fakirs roaming the desert, I think I understand. This I do not understand.

But why not call it a worship gang? It would make them sound tougher, and it would dovetail nicely with the attempt make tatoos part of hip Christianity. You could then have a worship gang initiation (which some fuddy-duddies might call "baptism"), and instead of confirmation they could make their worship "bones" by bringing the gang's worship into another gang's territory (which some old farts might call "spreading the good word").

Sometimes you need to learn about consequences by experiencing them.

I thought you are commanded to do good works, live lives of poverty and self-deprivation while maintaining with a gracious and open demeanor inspiring all who encounter you to Christ? Isn't that all the proselytizing you need?

You mock and it does get a chuckle but if the "old farts" aren't getting the bodies in the pews and the worship teams have got passels of kids doing the wave for Jesus then you are definitely on the losing end in a deliciously Darwinian sense.

Nothing like the crowds to validate that what you are doing is Right and True. Especially a crowd of Young People.

Scoffers get to scoff at all religion, the fuddy-duddy type which I prefer and the ludicrous types.

I actually think alot of these worship teams are the source of liturigcal Calvinists and Latin Mass Catholics. The enthusiasm of youth is traded in for something heartier later on.

"I actually think alot of these worship teams are the source of liturigcal Calvinists and Latin Mass Catholics. The enthusiasm of youth is traded in for something heartier later on."

This may be, and if it is the case then it is not nearly as misleading as I fear it could be. Perhaps my mockery was a bit much, but I am always skeptical of anything that seeks to make the Gospel more "relevant" or accessible to us when surely the point of evangelism is to offer the truth that is always "new" and more relevant, because it is eternal, than any modish adaptation. Perhaps what has puzzled me most about the worship team performances (what else do you call them?) I have seen is the complete disconnection of the structure of the worship team show from receiving Communion. The Divine Liturgy and the Mass, obviously, make this the central and culminating point of all liturgical action--that, in addition to praising God, is above all what people are gathered together in church to do. Any kind of worship, however prayerful and serious, that does not make this the core of the worship is going to be missing something vital. I mock because I find it strange, yes, but I also genuinely find it sad, and I really don't mean to say that in as condescending a way as it must sound. It seems sad to me that these deeply faithful people have to make do with the equivalent of scraps of wood when there are perfectly well-built boats that achieve the same end without nearly so much flailing about in the water.

Attendance at religious services generally drops off after leaving home, it picks back up when you have young children, it drops back off when the children are first grown and then it picks back up again in old age. Of course reported attendance at religious services remains steady over a lifetime along with interest in environmental causes and increases educational spending.

There was a good amount of attending, reading and contemplating before there was scoffing. Admittedly sometimes the scoffing alternated with the worship in a kind of stacatto but you have to be exposed to a lot of very bad homilies and read a lot of the Bible to be as cynical about religion as I am.

"You mock and it does get a chuckle but if the "old farts" aren't getting the bodies in the pews and the worship teams have got passels of kids doing the wave for Jesus then you are definitely on the losing end in a deliciously Darwinian sense."

Given that Reformed Christians have been embracing contraception and divorce wholeheartedly, I wouldn't count on that Darwinian victory just yet.

"you have to be exposed to a lot of very bad homilies and read a lot of the Bible to be as cynical about religion as I am."

Not that the two are necessarily connected, by the way.

I agree Nicholas bad homilies and the Bible are frequently tenuously connected or disconnected entirely.

Sad to say that in religion, as in other many less important things, most people are satisfied with the superficial.
Deep down, worship teams are shallow.

"U.S. Conference of catholic bishops needs to more aggressively recruit men into the priesthood who will spend the weekday hours in bars as their glorious predecessors in the faith have done. Bars need more priests, less evangelism."

Going to Mass at a really really High Church (Episcopal) is a decent substitute for a bar chock full o' priests. There is no evangelism (none whatsoever) and they always have decent communion wine. If you get to know the chalice bearers, they play favorites and don't move away too fast while you wet your whistle, uh, partake of the blood of Christ. If anyone else has the low class to comment on your behavior, you have several options, but my favorite is to grab the breast of some elderly woman and the word will get out that you are the pathetic not-right-in-the-head cousin of Verna Louise and allowances must be made. This really happened at my church, I suh-wear.

If you think this won't work in Noo York, consider moving South. Or not.

And people wonder how sectarianist nonsense starts. Well, it starts with anti-Biblical silliness like "less evangelism" for one (whether masquerading as cynical attempts at humor or not).

By the way, a "worship team" is nothing more than the group of people responsible for worship at a particular church. Every church has one, whether they call it a "worship team" or not. Your local priest or organist is a part of a worship team.

Ah, yes...Palestrina, the rock and roller of his age who along with a few contemporaries challenged the traditional goodness of the Gregorian Chant. You might try some evangelical churches Michael. You'd find a lot in common with people who believe that the King James Version of the Bible is the only authentic Englsih scripture, or that if a song isn't out of the hymnal, it's some version of that demon rock n roll (even the Twila Paris stuff!)

As for contemporary worship music, as a "worship leader" (not "captain", unless you're playing with someone named "Tenille") for a small church myself, there are plenty of contemporary songs I find to be of sub-standard quality. Of course, I feel the same way about several masses and "traditional music".

No, the two words that will destroy American religion faster than anything are the words "my way." Real worship leaders, be they priests or the laity know that the goal of worship is to give people space to commune with God. Performances, be they that of cantor or pop singer, or reactionary retreats into the dogmas of traditions (of which no current American Christian worship tradition extends much beyond the Middle Ages) are counterproductive in and of themselves.

Listen, Before I came back to the Church, I used to attend my local First Baptist Church - which had traditional services in the morning and then a "contemporary worship service" in the early evening. As a 15 year old I remember feeling deeply moved as I rocked back and forth and sang those songs like "I Could Sing of Your Love Forever" I'm not without sympathy for people who enjoy these services. However, I no longer believe these types of services cultivate a proper sense of devotion, and reverence for God.

I like rock and roll just fine. I like folk music too. But not in Church, thanks.