I recall hearing of this sort of phenomenon before... although to add further confusion to the mix (before I've read the piece in question), mathematicians don't necessarily consider their field a "science" (Actually, given the applicability of mathematics not only to absolute truth but to traditionalist aesthetic principles, particularly in art, architecture, music and even literature, I would agree wholeheartedly, and I would submit the mathematical incompetence of many liberal arts students these days is in no small way correlated--either as cause, effect, or side effect--to the generally low quality of contemporary arts. Certainly it explains the strange fascination with asymmetry and absurdism.)

Actually,Dan has it wrong! Historian John Lukacs does a wonderful job putting objectivity in its proper place, relying on Heisenberg's physics to do the job. For a fellow familiar with Voegelin and Lukacs, I'm somewhat surprised by this assertion.

Acknowledging the indeterminacy inherent in the Baconian scientific model, which quantum physics does quite successfully,is a direct correction of scientism,which tends to ignore the participant nature of scientific experiment.

Dan's exegesis is backwards here; and it's an unfortunate slight to kirk's memory to mis-characterize his thought in such a rag as reason...

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